Price of diesel vs petrol

Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 4 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
#1
To make the advantages of diesel outboards a bit more realistic (to compensate for the higher price of the engine) it is good to also look at the fuel prices. 

In Holland a commercial operator can use red EN-590 diesel which costs around € 0,50 p/l and the price of Euro unleaded petrol is around € 1,80 p/l in a marina. This means that the earn back time is very short.

The other advantage is that the diesel engines can be used in harbours and oil terminals where DNR regulations matter (no sparks near oil terminals)
Reply
#1
To make the advantages of diesel outboards a bit more realistic (to compensate for the higher price of the engine) it is good to also look at the fuel prices. 

In Holland a commercial operator can use red EN-590 diesel which costs around € 0,50 p/l and the price of Euro unleaded petrol is around € 1,80 p/l in a marina. This means that the earn back time is very short.

The other advantage is that the diesel engines can be used in harbours and oil terminals where DNR regulations matter (no sparks near oil terminals)
Reply
#2
(11-29-2020, 05:47 AM)Bruno Tideman Wrote: To make the advantages of diesel outboards a bit more realistic (to compensate for the higher price of the engine) it is good to also look at the fuel prices. 

In Holland a commercial operator can use red EN-590 diesel which costs around € 0,50 p/l and the price of Euro unleaded petrol is around € 1,80 p/l in a marina. This means that the earn back time is very short.

The other advantage is that the diesel engines can be used in harbours and oil terminals where DNR regulations matter (no sparks near oil terminals)

That’s definitely the interesting point Bruno. I’m concerned when I see OXE showing 40% fuel savings vs a petrol outboard. I suspect the savings may be that high at full throttle, but OXE says you can’t operate at full throttle more than 1 hour every 8 or something like that. The new petrol outboards are very efficient at cruising speeds. I’m also concerned if any of the high speed Diesel engines can truly last 9,000 hours like I see both OXE and Cox claiming. What do you think? 

As a commercial operator, I still have interest in the diesel outboards because of the upfront fuel cost savings like you mention. I can’t imagine these products will ever take off for recreational users though. I was able to get a demo on the Cox late last year and managed one on the OXE 200 in 2019. I was definitely more impressed with the engineering detail on the Cox product overall. What’s your opinion between OXE and Cox. They both seem to have been at this for a long time but with many delays and setbacks. I’ve seen some very negative commenting on Twitter regarding one of them (I won’t mention who it was).
Reply
#2
(11-29-2020, 05:47 AM)Bruno Tideman Wrote: To make the advantages of diesel outboards a bit more realistic (to compensate for the higher price of the engine) it is good to also look at the fuel prices. 

In Holland a commercial operator can use red EN-590 diesel which costs around € 0,50 p/l and the price of Euro unleaded petrol is around € 1,80 p/l in a marina. This means that the earn back time is very short.

The other advantage is that the diesel engines can be used in harbours and oil terminals where DNR regulations matter (no sparks near oil terminals)

That’s definitely the interesting point Bruno. I’m concerned when I see OXE showing 40% fuel savings vs a petrol outboard. I suspect the savings may be that high at full throttle, but OXE says you can’t operate at full throttle more than 1 hour every 8 or something like that. The new petrol outboards are very efficient at cruising speeds. I’m also concerned if any of the high speed Diesel engines can truly last 9,000 hours like I see both OXE and Cox claiming. What do you think? 

As a commercial operator, I still have interest in the diesel outboards because of the upfront fuel cost savings like you mention. I can’t imagine these products will ever take off for recreational users though. I was able to get a demo on the Cox late last year and managed one on the OXE 200 in 2019. I was definitely more impressed with the engineering detail on the Cox product overall. What’s your opinion between OXE and Cox. They both seem to have been at this for a long time but with many delays and setbacks. I’ve seen some very negative commenting on Twitter regarding one of them (I won’t mention who it was).
Reply
#3
Sorry guys, I don’t see how a BMW engine designed for automotive use (mostly light loading) will ever stand up to the duty cycle of a commercial marine product (medium to heavy loading). The automotive companies can’t afford to over-design around anything but their identified operating environment. For the BMW, thats an automotive environment.
Reply
#3
Sorry guys, I don’t see how a BMW engine designed for automotive use (mostly light loading) will ever stand up to the duty cycle of a commercial marine product (medium to heavy loading). The automotive companies can’t afford to over-design around anything but their identified operating environment. For the BMW, thats an automotive environment.
Reply
#4
(01-16-2021, 02:35 PM)Boatman1011 Wrote: Sorry guys, I don’t see how a BMW engine designed for automotive use (mostly light loading) will ever stand up to the duty cycle of a commercial marine product (medium to heavy loading). The automotive companies can’t afford to over-design around anything but their identified operating environment. For the BMW, thats an automotive environment.

I understand your point and that’s been a concern for me as well. However, I can’t imagine BMW would agree to let them brand the product with their logo if the product wasn’t tested properly.
Reply
#4
(01-16-2021, 02:35 PM)Boatman1011 Wrote: Sorry guys, I don’t see how a BMW engine designed for automotive use (mostly light loading) will ever stand up to the duty cycle of a commercial marine product (medium to heavy loading). The automotive companies can’t afford to over-design around anything but their identified operating environment. For the BMW, thats an automotive environment.

I understand your point and that’s been a concern for me as well. However, I can’t imagine BMW would agree to let them brand the product with their logo if the product wasn’t tested properly.
Reply
#5
(01-16-2021, 08:03 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote:
(01-16-2021, 02:35 PM)Boatman1011 Wrote: Sorry guys, I don’t see how a BMW engine designed for automotive use (mostly light loading) will ever stand up to the duty cycle of a commercial marine product (medium to heavy loading). The automotive companies can’t afford to over-design around anything but their identified operating environment. For the BMW, thats an automotive environment.

I understand your point and that’s been a concern for me as well. However, I can’t imagine BMW would agree to let them brand the product with their logo if the product wasn’t tested properly.

I have found some relevant fuel usage info on the CXO 300. Looks promising at 75lph wot


Attached Files
.pdf   Propeller informatie Cox CXO300.pdf (Size: 51.61 KB / Downloads: 5)
Reply
#5
(01-16-2021, 08:03 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote:
(01-16-2021, 02:35 PM)Boatman1011 Wrote: Sorry guys, I don’t see how a BMW engine designed for automotive use (mostly light loading) will ever stand up to the duty cycle of a commercial marine product (medium to heavy loading). The automotive companies can’t afford to over-design around anything but their identified operating environment. For the BMW, thats an automotive environment.

I understand your point and that’s been a concern for me as well. However, I can’t imagine BMW would agree to let them brand the product with their logo if the product wasn’t tested properly.

I have found some relevant fuel usage info on the CXO 300. Looks promising at 75lph wot


Attached Files
.pdf   Propeller informatie Cox CXO300.pdf (Size: 51.61 KB / Downloads: 5)
Reply
#6
(01-17-2021, 06:06 AM)Bruno Tideman Wrote:
(01-16-2021, 08:03 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote:
(01-16-2021, 02:35 PM)Boatman1011 Wrote: Sorry guys, I don’t see how a BMW engine designed for automotive use (mostly light loading) will ever stand up to the duty cycle of a commercial marine product (medium to heavy loading). The automotive companies can’t afford to over-design around anything but their identified operating environment. For the BMW, thats an automotive environment.

I understand your point and that’s been a concern for me as well. However, I can’t imagine BMW would agree to let them brand the product with their logo if the product wasn’t tested properly.

I have found some relevant fuel usage info on the CXO 300. Looks promising at 75lph wot
Thanks Bruno those results look really positive at 75 Lph. Do you know of any other boat builders that have had any experience with the Cox product yet?
Reply
#6
(01-17-2021, 06:06 AM)Bruno Tideman Wrote:
(01-16-2021, 08:03 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote:
(01-16-2021, 02:35 PM)Boatman1011 Wrote: Sorry guys, I don’t see how a BMW engine designed for automotive use (mostly light loading) will ever stand up to the duty cycle of a commercial marine product (medium to heavy loading). The automotive companies can’t afford to over-design around anything but their identified operating environment. For the BMW, thats an automotive environment.

I understand your point and that’s been a concern for me as well. However, I can’t imagine BMW would agree to let them brand the product with their logo if the product wasn’t tested properly.

I have found some relevant fuel usage info on the CXO 300. Looks promising at 75lph wot
Thanks Bruno those results look really positive at 75 Lph. Do you know of any other boat builders that have had any experience with the Cox product yet?
Reply
#7
(01-17-2021, 03:23 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 06:06 AM)Bruno Tideman Wrote:
(01-16-2021, 08:03 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote:
(01-16-2021, 02:35 PM)Boatman1011 Wrote: Sorry guys, I don’t see how a BMW engine designed for automotive use (mostly light loading) will ever stand up to the duty cycle of a commercial marine product (medium to heavy loading). The automotive companies can’t afford to over-design around anything but their identified operating environment. For the BMW, thats an automotive environment.

I understand your point and that’s been a concern for me as well. However, I can’t imagine BMW would agree to let them brand the product with their logo if the product wasn’t tested properly.

I have found some relevant fuel usage info on the CXO 300. Looks promising at 75lph wot
Thanks Bruno those results look really positive at 75 Lph. Do you know of any other boat builders that have had any experience with the Cox product yet?
We expect first delivery soon, for single installation on a RBB 900
Reply
#7
(01-17-2021, 03:23 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 06:06 AM)Bruno Tideman Wrote:
(01-16-2021, 08:03 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote:
(01-16-2021, 02:35 PM)Boatman1011 Wrote: Sorry guys, I don’t see how a BMW engine designed for automotive use (mostly light loading) will ever stand up to the duty cycle of a commercial marine product (medium to heavy loading). The automotive companies can’t afford to over-design around anything but their identified operating environment. For the BMW, thats an automotive environment.

I understand your point and that’s been a concern for me as well. However, I can’t imagine BMW would agree to let them brand the product with their logo if the product wasn’t tested properly.

I have found some relevant fuel usage info on the CXO 300. Looks promising at 75lph wot
Thanks Bruno those results look really positive at 75 Lph. Do you know of any other boat builders that have had any experience with the Cox product yet?
We expect first delivery soon, for single installation on a RBB 900
Reply
#8
(01-17-2021, 03:25 PM)Bruno Tideman Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 03:23 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 06:06 AM)Bruno Tideman Wrote:
(01-16-2021, 08:03 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote:
(01-16-2021, 02:35 PM)Boatman1011 Wrote: Sorry guys, I don’t see how a BMW engine designed for automotive use (mostly light loading) will ever stand up to the duty cycle of a commercial marine product (medium to heavy loading). The automotive companies can’t afford to over-design around anything but their identified operating environment. For the BMW, thats an automotive environment.

I understand your point and that’s been a concern for me as well. However, I can’t imagine BMW would agree to let them brand the product with their logo if the product wasn’t tested properly.

I have found some relevant fuel usage info on the CXO 300. Looks promising at 75lph wot
Thanks Bruno those results look really positive at 75 Lph. Do you know of any other boat builders that have had any experience with the Cox product yet?
We expect first delivery soon, for single installation on a RBB 900

I checked out your website, and the indestructible boats you manufacturer look very interesting. What are the main applications for these type boats? Are there any in the U.S. that I could check out?
Reply
#8
(01-17-2021, 03:25 PM)Bruno Tideman Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 03:23 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 06:06 AM)Bruno Tideman Wrote:
(01-16-2021, 08:03 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote:
(01-16-2021, 02:35 PM)Boatman1011 Wrote: Sorry guys, I don’t see how a BMW engine designed for automotive use (mostly light loading) will ever stand up to the duty cycle of a commercial marine product (medium to heavy loading). The automotive companies can’t afford to over-design around anything but their identified operating environment. For the BMW, thats an automotive environment.

I understand your point and that’s been a concern for me as well. However, I can’t imagine BMW would agree to let them brand the product with their logo if the product wasn’t tested properly.

I have found some relevant fuel usage info on the CXO 300. Looks promising at 75lph wot
Thanks Bruno those results look really positive at 75 Lph. Do you know of any other boat builders that have had any experience with the Cox product yet?
We expect first delivery soon, for single installation on a RBB 900

I checked out your website, and the indestructible boats you manufacturer look very interesting. What are the main applications for these type boats? Are there any in the U.S. that I could check out?
Reply
#9
(01-17-2021, 03:29 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 03:25 PM)Bruno Tideman Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 03:23 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 06:06 AM)Bruno Tideman Wrote:
(01-16-2021, 08:03 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote: I understand your point and that’s been a concern for me as well. However, I can’t imagine BMW would agree to let them brand the product with their logo if the product wasn’t tested properly.

I have found some relevant fuel usage info on the CXO 300. Looks promising at 75lph wot
Thanks Bruno those results look really positive at 75 Lph. Do you know of any other boat builders that have had any experience with the Cox product yet?
We expect first delivery soon, for single installation on a RBB 900

I checked out your website, and the indestructible boats you manufacturer look very interesting. What are the main applications for these type boats? Are there any in the U.S. that I could check out?

they are workboats, mainly being used for dive support, patrolling, survey and crew tendering. If the conditions are really difficult and you need a reliable platform to perform your job. We do not yet sell in the US. Jones act and liabilities are the main show stoppers. No USCG approval as well. Check out DGS monster, a fellow PE builder in Florida!
Reply
#9
(01-17-2021, 03:29 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 03:25 PM)Bruno Tideman Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 03:23 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 06:06 AM)Bruno Tideman Wrote:
(01-16-2021, 08:03 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote: I understand your point and that’s been a concern for me as well. However, I can’t imagine BMW would agree to let them brand the product with their logo if the product wasn’t tested properly.

I have found some relevant fuel usage info on the CXO 300. Looks promising at 75lph wot
Thanks Bruno those results look really positive at 75 Lph. Do you know of any other boat builders that have had any experience with the Cox product yet?
We expect first delivery soon, for single installation on a RBB 900

I checked out your website, and the indestructible boats you manufacturer look very interesting. What are the main applications for these type boats? Are there any in the U.S. that I could check out?

they are workboats, mainly being used for dive support, patrolling, survey and crew tendering. If the conditions are really difficult and you need a reliable platform to perform your job. We do not yet sell in the US. Jones act and liabilities are the main show stoppers. No USCG approval as well. Check out DGS monster, a fellow PE builder in Florida!
Reply
#10
(01-17-2021, 03:44 PM)Bruno Tideman Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 03:29 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 03:25 PM)Bruno Tideman Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 03:23 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 06:06 AM)Bruno Tideman Wrote: I have found some relevant fuel usage info on the CXO 300. Looks promising at 75lph wot
Thanks Bruno those results look really positive at 75 Lph. Do you know of any other boat builders that have had any experience with the Cox product yet?
We expect first delivery soon, for single installation on a RBB 900

I checked out your website, and the indestructible boats you manufacturer look very interesting. What are the main applications for these type boats? Are there any in the U.S. that I could check out?

they are workboats, mainly being used for dive support, patrolling, survey and crew tendering. If the conditions are really difficult and you need a reliable platform to perform your job. We do not yet sell in the US. Jones act and liabilities are the main show stoppers. No USCG approval as well. Check out DGS monster, a fellow PE builder in Florida!
Thanks Bruno, I had a look at their website. They don’t seem to have as many models listed as what you’re offering but the “indestructible, low maintenance” product is just very interesting from a commercial view.
Reply
#10
(01-17-2021, 03:44 PM)Bruno Tideman Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 03:29 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 03:25 PM)Bruno Tideman Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 03:23 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote:
(01-17-2021, 06:06 AM)Bruno Tideman Wrote: I have found some relevant fuel usage info on the CXO 300. Looks promising at 75lph wot
Thanks Bruno those results look really positive at 75 Lph. Do you know of any other boat builders that have had any experience with the Cox product yet?
We expect first delivery soon, for single installation on a RBB 900

I checked out your website, and the indestructible boats you manufacturer look very interesting. What are the main applications for these type boats? Are there any in the U.S. that I could check out?

they are workboats, mainly being used for dive support, patrolling, survey and crew tendering. If the conditions are really difficult and you need a reliable platform to perform your job. We do not yet sell in the US. Jones act and liabilities are the main show stoppers. No USCG approval as well. Check out DGS monster, a fellow PE builder in Florida!
Thanks Bruno, I had a look at their website. They don’t seem to have as many models listed as what you’re offering but the “indestructible, low maintenance” product is just very interesting from a commercial view.
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)