Caudwell Marine Diesel Outboard

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#1
Caudwell Marine to enter 300-hp diesel outboard market in 2024


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#1
Caudwell Marine to enter 300-hp diesel outboard market in 2024


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#2
I signed up for this forum 2 years ago but haven’t ever seen much conversation taking place in it. Then today I get an alert that there’s another new diesel outboard player entering the market. Has anyone heard of Caudwell Marine? Sounds like it’s really just a hobby project for a rich guy in Britain ? from what I could find.
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#2
I signed up for this forum 2 years ago but haven’t ever seen much conversation taking place in it. Then today I get an alert that there’s another new diesel outboard player entering the market. Has anyone heard of Caudwell Marine? Sounds like it’s really just a hobby project for a rich guy in Britain ? from what I could find.
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#3
What is the weight? In my opinion the other competitors diesel outboards are struggling because 300Hp isn’t enough to offset the lower RPM, and they don’t offer the same quality as the big 3. If someone comes up with a 400 Hp version that weighs 1,000 Lbs or less, and will last 5,000 hrs, now that will change the market enough to get recreational customers to look. Who wants to pay 3 times the cost of a gasoline outboard that already has a proven quality track record and support network to buy a diesel outboard that weighs 2 or 3 times as much as the gas? Then throw in the fact that none of these companies have a proven support network and its too much of a gamble. Interestingly Seven Marine had the insight and ability to successfully change the market to adopt these large displacement outboards. But Seven Marine didn’t have the proven network that allowed Yamaha and Mercury do sell more outboards in 1 month than Seven Marine ever sold in all their years combined.
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#3
What is the weight? In my opinion the other competitors diesel outboards are struggling because 300Hp isn’t enough to offset the lower RPM, and they don’t offer the same quality as the big 3. If someone comes up with a 400 Hp version that weighs 1,000 Lbs or less, and will last 5,000 hrs, now that will change the market enough to get recreational customers to look. Who wants to pay 3 times the cost of a gasoline outboard that already has a proven quality track record and support network to buy a diesel outboard that weighs 2 or 3 times as much as the gas? Then throw in the fact that none of these companies have a proven support network and its too much of a gamble. Interestingly Seven Marine had the insight and ability to successfully change the market to adopt these large displacement outboards. But Seven Marine didn’t have the proven network that allowed Yamaha and Mercury do sell more outboards in 1 month than Seven Marine ever sold in all their years combined.
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#4
(05-13-2023, 12:56 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote: I signed up for this forum 2 years ago but haven’t ever seen much conversation taking place in it. Then today I get an alert that there’s another new diesel outboard player entering the market. Has anyone heard of Caudwell Marine? Sounds like it’s really just a hobby project for a rich guy in Britain ? from what I could find.
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#4
(05-13-2023, 12:56 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote: I signed up for this forum 2 years ago but haven’t ever seen much conversation taking place in it. Then today I get an alert that there’s another new diesel outboard player entering the market. Has anyone heard of Caudwell Marine? Sounds like it’s really just a hobby project for a rich guy in Britain ? from what I could find.
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#5
(05-13-2023, 12:56 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote: I signed up for this forum 2 years ago but haven’t ever seen much conversation taking place in it. Then today I get an alert that there’s another new diesel outboard player entering the market. Has anyone heard of Caudwell Marine? Sounds like it’s really just a hobby project for a rich guy in Britain ? from what I could find.

From what I've heard it is a super-heavy engine, that some rich guy is trying to make work. They are saying they are doing loads of testing to make it a great product. But, people have told me that they are still struggling with basic problems.
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#5
(05-13-2023, 12:56 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote: I signed up for this forum 2 years ago but haven’t ever seen much conversation taking place in it. Then today I get an alert that there’s another new diesel outboard player entering the market. Has anyone heard of Caudwell Marine? Sounds like it’s really just a hobby project for a rich guy in Britain ? from what I could find.

From what I've heard it is a super-heavy engine, that some rich guy is trying to make work. They are saying they are doing loads of testing to make it a great product. But, people have told me that they are still struggling with basic problems.
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#6
(05-31-2023, 07:18 AM)boatingbrit Wrote:
(05-13-2023, 12:56 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote: I signed up for this forum 2 years ago but haven’t ever seen much conversation taking place in it. Then today I get an alert that there’s another new diesel outboard player entering the market. Has anyone heard of Caudwell Marine? Sounds like it’s really just a hobby project for a rich guy in Britain ? from what I could find.

From what I've heard it is a super-heavy engine, that some rich guy is trying to make work. They are saying they are doing loads of testing to make it a great product. But, people have told me that they are still struggling with basic problems.
I talked to a person I know from OXE and what they said was inline with your comment. 500+ Kg, and still having many validation issues. They did say they thought Caudwell was using the same inboard VM engine MerCruiser markets at 270 Hp so don’t know if they’re possibly using a bigger turbo or something to squeeze more Hp. However, the MerCruiser 270 Hp is not known to be a reliable commercial rated diesel engine so not sure how they plan to sell this as a highly reliable, “extreme validated” commercial diesel outboard. Wait and see, and then spend your $80K to see if it works? No thanks.
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#6
(05-31-2023, 07:18 AM)boatingbrit Wrote:
(05-13-2023, 12:56 PM)fishfry1968 Wrote: I signed up for this forum 2 years ago but haven’t ever seen much conversation taking place in it. Then today I get an alert that there’s another new diesel outboard player entering the market. Has anyone heard of Caudwell Marine? Sounds like it’s really just a hobby project for a rich guy in Britain ? from what I could find.

From what I've heard it is a super-heavy engine, that some rich guy is trying to make work. They are saying they are doing loads of testing to make it a great product. But, people have told me that they are still struggling with basic problems.
I talked to a person I know from OXE and what they said was inline with your comment. 500+ Kg, and still having many validation issues. They did say they thought Caudwell was using the same inboard VM engine MerCruiser markets at 270 Hp so don’t know if they’re possibly using a bigger turbo or something to squeeze more Hp. However, the MerCruiser 270 Hp is not known to be a reliable commercial rated diesel engine so not sure how they plan to sell this as a highly reliable, “extreme validated” commercial diesel outboard. Wait and see, and then spend your $80K to see if it works? No thanks.
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#7
Similar and interesting information nonetheless. I’ve followed the diesel outboard market for several years and always found myself wondering why anyone would pay double or triple the cost of a Mercury or Yamaha gas motor when these diesel outboard companies have no history. The warranty is only as good as the company behind it, and even having a billionaire backer doesn’t mean they won’t file bankruptcy for a tax write off.

I was originally intrigued because when OXE said NATO single fuel compliant which I think would be an advantage for the commercial and military markets. But when you see that they are using these automotive base engines that are designed to run on low sulphur diesel, they won’t operate on the mil spec fuel. The other huge hurdle is the weight. If a boat is designed for X lbs to be hung on the transom and they currently use 2 or 3 gas outboards to push it through the water, what happens if you hit the weight limit at only 1 or 2 diesel outboards? The additional torque of a 300 Hp diesel will not offset the difference for eliminating one of the 300 Hp gas outboards. But if you drop down to a 150 Hp - or 200 Hp to compare the torque against, the weight completely eliminates the 300 Hp diesel from performing efficiently on that boat.
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#7
Similar and interesting information nonetheless. I’ve followed the diesel outboard market for several years and always found myself wondering why anyone would pay double or triple the cost of a Mercury or Yamaha gas motor when these diesel outboard companies have no history. The warranty is only as good as the company behind it, and even having a billionaire backer doesn’t mean they won’t file bankruptcy for a tax write off.

I was originally intrigued because when OXE said NATO single fuel compliant which I think would be an advantage for the commercial and military markets. But when you see that they are using these automotive base engines that are designed to run on low sulphur diesel, they won’t operate on the mil spec fuel. The other huge hurdle is the weight. If a boat is designed for X lbs to be hung on the transom and they currently use 2 or 3 gas outboards to push it through the water, what happens if you hit the weight limit at only 1 or 2 diesel outboards? The additional torque of a 300 Hp diesel will not offset the difference for eliminating one of the 300 Hp gas outboards. But if you drop down to a 150 Hp - or 200 Hp to compare the torque against, the weight completely eliminates the 300 Hp diesel from performing efficiently on that boat.
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#8
(06-01-2023, 12:54 PM)Boatman1011 Wrote: Similar and interesting information nonetheless. I’ve followed the diesel outboard market for several years and always found myself wondering why anyone would pay double or triple the cost of a Mercury or Yamaha gas motor when these diesel outboard companies have no history. The warranty is only as good as the company behind it, and even having a billionaire backer doesn’t mean they won’t file bankruptcy for a tax write off.

I was originally intrigued because when OXE said NATO single fuel compliant which I think would be an advantage for the commercial and military markets. But when you see that they are using these automotive base engines that are designed to run on low sulphur diesel, they won’t operate on the mil spec fuel. The other huge hurdle is the weight. If a boat is designed for X lbs to be hung on the transom and they currently use 2 or 3 gas outboards to push it through the water, what happens if you hit the weight limit at only 1 or 2 diesel outboards? The additional torque of a 300 Hp diesel will not offset the difference for eliminating one of the 300 Hp gas outboards. But if you drop down to a 150 Hp - or 200 Hp to compare the torque against, the weight completely eliminates the 300 Hp diesel from performing efficiently on that boat.
I absolutely agree with the fact that OXE seems to be making claims that I (and others I have spoken to) don't think make sense based on the fact they use a BMW engine. I am intrigued by how well the COX V8 runs on mil-spec fuels, as apparently, that is what it was designed for.

I have heard of some dealers having to reinforce the transoms to take the weight, but not everyone is having to. COX is running a Front Runner in Florida, which I think started off with twin 225s and is now running a single 300, with only a few MPH difference, according to their video about it.
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#8
(06-01-2023, 12:54 PM)Boatman1011 Wrote: Similar and interesting information nonetheless. I’ve followed the diesel outboard market for several years and always found myself wondering why anyone would pay double or triple the cost of a Mercury or Yamaha gas motor when these diesel outboard companies have no history. The warranty is only as good as the company behind it, and even having a billionaire backer doesn’t mean they won’t file bankruptcy for a tax write off.

I was originally intrigued because when OXE said NATO single fuel compliant which I think would be an advantage for the commercial and military markets. But when you see that they are using these automotive base engines that are designed to run on low sulphur diesel, they won’t operate on the mil spec fuel. The other huge hurdle is the weight. If a boat is designed for X lbs to be hung on the transom and they currently use 2 or 3 gas outboards to push it through the water, what happens if you hit the weight limit at only 1 or 2 diesel outboards? The additional torque of a 300 Hp diesel will not offset the difference for eliminating one of the 300 Hp gas outboards. But if you drop down to a 150 Hp - or 200 Hp to compare the torque against, the weight completely eliminates the 300 Hp diesel from performing efficiently on that boat.
I absolutely agree with the fact that OXE seems to be making claims that I (and others I have spoken to) don't think make sense based on the fact they use a BMW engine. I am intrigued by how well the COX V8 runs on mil-spec fuels, as apparently, that is what it was designed for.

I have heard of some dealers having to reinforce the transoms to take the weight, but not everyone is having to. COX is running a Front Runner in Florida, which I think started off with twin 225s and is now running a single 300, with only a few MPH difference, according to their video about it.
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#9
I don’t how the Cox could be designed for mil-spec fuels and still be EPA Tier 3 compliant at the same time. It seem the high pressure common rail fuel system & pumps are considerably different in how each is designed to work well with one or the other fuels, but not both. I have a small commercial business so I’ve been intrigued by the diesel outboards and researching them for several years. I was on this forum in 2021 after having been on a demo in Ft Lauderdale with a Cox boat and the big Caterpillar distributor. The boat performance was good, but they were having issues with water pressure at low rpm, too high idle speed, very rough shift engagement, supply fuel pumps, and water in the gear lube. There was also another Cox distributor from another part of the country on the boat at the same time and I overheard then talking to each other about how far Cox was from actually having a reliable product and they were both unhappy about how it was going. I also did a demo on a boat with Mercury 300 Hp 4 strokes. The only place I could see a big fuel savings was at top speed. With the Mercury outboards you could run the rpm’s down lower to be at the same cruising speed and the fuel economy was actually very close because they had calibrated the cruising speeds for fuel economy. I’ve heard more recently that Cox has worked out a lot of problems since then but it would still concern me to invest so much money to take such a risk on an unproven product. Once I can see widespread market acceptance for either Oxe or Cox I’d be more comfortable but they are both still a long, long way from that. I did recently see something about OXE signed a deal with a wind farm operating company. That seems like a high profile step so it will probably show whether they are actually ready for the market or not.
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#9
I don’t how the Cox could be designed for mil-spec fuels and still be EPA Tier 3 compliant at the same time. It seem the high pressure common rail fuel system & pumps are considerably different in how each is designed to work well with one or the other fuels, but not both. I have a small commercial business so I’ve been intrigued by the diesel outboards and researching them for several years. I was on this forum in 2021 after having been on a demo in Ft Lauderdale with a Cox boat and the big Caterpillar distributor. The boat performance was good, but they were having issues with water pressure at low rpm, too high idle speed, very rough shift engagement, supply fuel pumps, and water in the gear lube. There was also another Cox distributor from another part of the country on the boat at the same time and I overheard then talking to each other about how far Cox was from actually having a reliable product and they were both unhappy about how it was going. I also did a demo on a boat with Mercury 300 Hp 4 strokes. The only place I could see a big fuel savings was at top speed. With the Mercury outboards you could run the rpm’s down lower to be at the same cruising speed and the fuel economy was actually very close because they had calibrated the cruising speeds for fuel economy. I’ve heard more recently that Cox has worked out a lot of problems since then but it would still concern me to invest so much money to take such a risk on an unproven product. Once I can see widespread market acceptance for either Oxe or Cox I’d be more comfortable but they are both still a long, long way from that. I did recently see something about OXE signed a deal with a wind farm operating company. That seems like a high profile step so it will probably show whether they are actually ready for the market or not.
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